Hot for Teacher
Grerp, springboarding from SDaedalus, posited on the relationship between female intelligence and attractiveness. In her post, Grerp wrote:
In my humble opinion, much of the impetus behind feminism is based on the dissatisfaction really, really smart women had with the fact that dumber, prettier women with few credentials routinely swept the man market without breaking a sweat. And anger because the reverse isn’t true for men. Men don’t have to mask their intelligence to be more datable. Brilliant men are hot, unless of course they are socially stunted. Women want to be with men who are over endowed in the brains department. With women, it’s a lot more complicated. Intelligence is attractive in women when it’s translated into wit or when it means you can hold a decent conversation or you have enough common sense to avoid making stupid mistakes. It’s not attractive when it’s used as an ego prop or a billboard to advertise how much you’ve got going on.
To this I responded:
It’s not that feminism was the angry intelligent woman’s revenge against the hot dingbat as much as it was the clever and credentialed woman’s revenge against those who offered the total package. The prettier metaphorical floor-sweeper may have been dumber in a sense, but I’m guessing she offered a level of common sense that the clever woman did not. . .
Though you wrote of ego props specifically as they relate to women, boring cockiness is boring in either sex. Moreover, being socially stunted is being socially stunted. Being stunted means not adhering to the roles which have served society pretty well. Socially stunted males and females alike use their intelligence as an ego prop and that prop is fairly equally off-putting.
Honestly, I didn’t actually speak to Grerp’s discussion of really, really smart women. Nevertheless, I don’t think she made an apples to apples comparison when she compared really smart women against Dr. House, a fictional character portrayed by an actor who was at least partially chosen based on his physical appearance. A better comparison is Marie Curie vs. David Livingstone, I presume. I have no idea if Marie Curie and Dr. Livingstone were considered hotties in their heyday or if they were prone to droning on about how awesome they respectively were, but both had spouses and kids.
As to the actual topic at hand, science shows a link between attractiveness and intelligence:
Sociologists and social psychologists, convinced (and politically predisposed to believe) that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and “beauty is only skin-deep,” dismiss this widespread perception as “bias,” stereotype,” or “halo effect,” with the implicit assumption that the perception is not accurate and has no factual basis. It is a stereotype that beautiful people are more intelligent. But, as I explain in an earlier post, virtually all stereotypes are empirically true; if they were not true, they would not be stereotypes in the first place. And it turns out that this one is no exception. People believe beautiful people are more intelligent, because they in fact are.
The National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health), conducted by a team of researchers at the University of North Carolina – Chapel Hill, is one of the very few social science datasets that take biological and genetic influences on human behavior seriously. As a result, Add Health routinely measures both the intelligence and physical attractiveness of its respondents.
In the Wave III of Add Health, conducted in 2000-2001, respondents take an IQ test called the Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test. And then their physical attractiveness is measured objectively by an interviewer, who is unaware of their IQ test scores, on a 5-point scale (1 = Very unattractive, 2 = Unattractive, 3 = About average, 4 = Attractive, and 5 = Very attractive). The following graph shows the association between Add Health respondents’ physical attractiveness and their intelligence. The data come from a large (n = 15,197) nationally representative sample of young Americans (mean age = 22).
As you can see, there is a clear monotonic positive association between physical attractiveness and intelligence. The more physically attractive Add Health respondents are, the more intelligent they are. The mean IQ is 94.2 for those rated “very unattractive,” 94.9 for those rated “unattractive,” 97.1 for those rated “about average,” 100.3 for those rated “attractive,” and 100.7 for those rated “very attractive.” Due partly to the large sample size, the association is highly statistically significant.
What we’re left with, then, are the stereotypes that beautiful women are unattractive and that attractive women are stupid. Feminism again rears its ugly head. Outliers – the really, really smart and heavily credentialed women – were not smart enough to overcome normal female competitiveness. Rather than accept the plain truth about themselves, i.e. they were less attractive, pleasant, or socially adjusted than their stupider sisters, they constructed a narrative which stated that men prefer stupid women. We do not. Explaining every statement and joke and hearing endless discussions of People Magazine are erection killers.
That does not mean that we prefer disheveled asexual geniuses or pretentious credentialed hotties either. In her post on Bernice Bobs Her Hair, SDaedalus revealed more than I suspect she intended to:
Of course, in reality, most men find depth and integrity, unleavened by anything lighter, somewhat hard to tolerate on a constant basis even in a pretty woman. It can feel like being back at school. A little bit of superficial frivolity tends to take the pressure off a bit.
Then, in her list of recommendations:
(iii) Do not assume that men will like you for your worthy characteristics;; men say that they value these characteristics in women, but usually only truly appreciate them when combined with good looks, frivolity and *sigh* an ability to cook without causing indigestion;
(iv) Be frivolous. For the more serious dames among you, this consists of a combination of flattery, wit and the ability to appear stupid silly when necessary, also, the ability to read signals & tone it down when it gets annoying;
SDaedalus suggested that women think about the personality traits men find attractive and increase those traits in themselves. She did not say that women actually be vapid or stupider than their male counterparts, just that they actually accept what other humans find attractive and seek to amplify those traits in themselves. In other words, SDaedalus suggested women use their intelligence to discern their strengths and weaknesses and then make adjustments. True, the end result is not a woman who waxes poetic on quantum physics, but one who waxes poetic on lighter and airier subjects. Women, though, aren’t generally attracted to a man who waxes poetic on the amount of torque necessary for a fine driving experience. The ladies expect us to engage in frivolous social pleasantries just as we expect the same of them.
The entirety of this discussion revolved around initial attraction. Sustained attraction is another animal. As I wrote in the comments of Grerp’s piece:
Smarts aren’t as much of an initial attractor as looks for men, but men who want long term relationships or marriage seek women whom they can actually talk to and spend non-naked time with.
Life is all about naked time, except when it’s not. Men who want relationships, which is to say a large number of men, need the looks, attitude, and intelligence to cover both the naked and the non-naked times. We need a multitude of layers to appreciate. The internal augments the external and renders a more beautiful result than can be achieved independently. Beauty without brains can be nice to look at, but it’s not a piece I’d want to decorate my house with.

In other words, SDaedalus suggested women use their intelligence to discern their strengths and weaknesses and then make adjustments
Yes, this is an excellent one sentence summary of what I was trying to say. I really believe that a reasonably attractive woman (say a 6, or even a 5) can do an awful lot with a bit of intelligence in this regard, provided that she accepts the world as it is and not as it should be & works within this. I also think intelligence is very important in the battle to maintain attraction despite the ageing process.
[See how she did that, ladies? I suspected wrong. She knew exactly what she was writing, but she didn't call me out on it.]
PS: thanks so much for the linkage, as ever. I will have a think about your post and maybe put up some more comments as they come to mind.
Naked Time, ha ha ha, ting!
-Dana Carvey
I think the best point SDaedalus made is that you have to actually be a very intelligent woman to stop putting so much emphasis on how sheer intelligent you are and hone other attributes that make you attractive. Roissy said something similar before when he remarked that the more intelligent a woman is, the better game works on her; apparently dumb women are not as adept at being witty or at noticing wit in other people, valueing nuance, and taking an active role in the intricate dance of seduction.
Do you think Hugh Laurie was chosen for his attractiveness? Because I did not find him attractive in Blackadder or Jeeves & Wooster or A Bit of Fry and Laurie or Stuart Little or really anything else he’s done. He is very funny, very smart, and quite talented, but not really attractive.
Dr. House, on the other hand, is hot. A complete train wreck of a person, but hot.
My hat is off to your combined wisdom, Ulysses and SDaedalus.
[I had to look up pics. Hugh Laurie was really a funny looking dude when younger.
Thank you for getting the ball rolling on this. I suspect this topic is far from being over, especially after reading the more recent comments at your place.]
You are very welcome, Ulysses.
Hi Grerp
Your post is excellent, I hadn’t spotted it until Ulysses linked to it.
Hugh Laurie is a very handsome man. I had a crush on him as a kid in Blackadder (I particularly liked him as George IV), then in Jeeves & Wooster (Fry & Laurie was a bit before my time). Admittedly I may have been influenced by the fact that his surname was the same as the first name of the hero in Little Women, another early crush. But you should see the photos of him as a student, he was a champion rower, he looked so lovely in that blue singlet. And he has aged exceptionally well, he has actually grown more attractive with age.
PS: I always thought Hugh Grant was a less intelligent looking imitation. Hugh Laurie should have been cast instead in Four Weddings and a Funeral, he would have been much better. I was delighted to see him get his big break eventually.
Are women attracted to intelligent men insofar as this intelligence is frequently the harbinger of material success and social status, two qualities women, according to much of this sphere, are steered toward by their evopsych lineage? Would women find intelligence equally “sexy” if the owner eschewed all trappings of materialism and status if he chose to lead an ascetic life?
In other words, is intelligence in men, as a measure of desirability to women, merely a proxy for all the superficial desires intelligent women are too self-consciously vain to admit? Ghetto women, with much less to lose in terms of self-respect and appearance of intellect, are straight-up whores for the cheesy bling.
I’m a cynic.
[Your cynicism is most likely justified. Nonetheless, I blame Karl Marx and his starving children. Whether it was a failure of his intelligence or a failure of the bourgeoisie to clean his house and properly provide for his progeny, the cycle has played ad infinitum ever since. (Ignore the fact that it was playing out ad infinitum prior to Marx. Regardless of the efficacy of his ideas, he was a smart individual. Modern Marx would abhor the bling, but cherish the mindset that focuses on the bling. It would be all too familiar to him.)]
SDaedalus – Hugh Laurie definitely got better with age. He is very enjoyable to watch, whether doing comedy or drama. Hugh Grant was better looking, I think, objectively. But despite the self-deprecation he trots out for interviews, etc., he still gives off a real vibe of mental elitism. Not another round for the hoi polloi: we are all so tiresome to entertain.
I don’t think it’s fair to say that attraction to intelligence is just a prettier way of expressing money/status lust. If you’ve ever had a real sparkling conversation, a real challenging exchange of wit, you’ll know how exhilarating it can be and how different from 99.9% of the social discourse you will have over the course of your lifetime. I mean, yes, intelligence is a marker for success which is a marker for financial security. But Bertie Wooster, whom Hugh Laurie also played, has plenty of money and status and is an amiable chap – and a total buffoon. It’s hard to imagine crushing on him.
Well, I was very young at the time Grerp, but I actually quite liked him as Bertie Wooster, he was endearing. In many ways Bertie was smarter than Jeeves. Although I don’t know if I would go for the Bertie type now, your original comment was regarding Hugh’s handsomeness, I did think he was cute as well as endearing. Admittedly this was the 80s, where 50 percent of male celebrities were covertly gay.
If you’ve ever had a real sparkling conversation, a real challenging exchange of wit, you’ll know how exhilarating it can be and how different from 99.9% of the social discourse you will have over the course of your lifetime
Yes, and it is very hard to go back to ordinary conversation afterwards, sometimes even painful, but it is probably better to have had the conversation than not at all.
I agree with you – Laurie is endearing as Bertie. But I would be utterly exasperated with Bertie Wooster if he were my husband IRL. I haven’t seen all the episodes of Jeeves & Wooster – I had to get the ones I saw through the library system – so I’m basing my impressions of Bertie on the P.G. Wodehouse stories themselves. I read a couple of short story compilations, and as I remember it Jeeves is always puppeteering behind the scenes to get Bertie out of a scrape.
Lord Peter Wimsey is far more attractive, though often quite frivolous seeming as well. He is just so much smarter.
I think I read the short stories at one point, but my memory is of the TV series, which I saw first. The whole tongue-tied but cute & endearing posh Englishman thing did not start with Hugh Grant & has been round since the late 70s, early 80s. I’m thinking Simon McCorquindale, Anthony Andrews, even Jeremy Irons in his younger years. Funnily enough, a lot of the films they starred in were set in the 1920s. I think this type tends to come up in light entertainment in an era like the 1920s/1980s which favors assertive women, it is interesting. Although puberty & a spell in England (where there are lots of examples of this type) cooled my ardour for it somewhat, my early love for it did leave some residual traces on my psyche. I think though that this would be a fondness for the occasional element of this type, rather than the full type itself.
Although I think Lord Peter (a man of his time, the 1920s again btw) might have been a a little bit affected for real life, the soft underbelly war experience thing was interesting, he must have had some attraction for me for this to kick in.
If you want a modern version of Lord Peter you will find it in the hero of Elizabeth George’s detective novels (I can’t remember his name, but he is essentially the modern equivalent, complete with soft underbelly). He had a very nice wife (sadly, now deceased). I think you would approve of her.
I really do love the Lord Peter Wimsey/Harriet Vane novels, even though I think Harriet blew her own life up by living with a man outside of marriage back then (and being framed for his murder, though that wasn’t his fault). It’s basically the unrequited love angle. I’m always up for more of that. And Peter is so darling. Loved the BBC adaptions with Edward Petherbridge and Harriet Walter too.
This is b.s. Women aren’t attracted to intelligence at all. They may in fact find it modestly repulsive as they are less intelligent than men on average and much less when it comes to really smart men.
Women are attracted to money & status and will tolerate intelligence if it results in these other factors. Let’s call a spade a spade. We see plenty of men are attracted to really stupid athletes. In fact these men do much better with women than equally wealthy captains of industry.
Watching women’s real choices show no attraction to intelligence at all. If anything we see the reverse but it is covered up by the fact that a lot of intelligent guys make good money.
correction. Plenty of women are attracted to really stupid (and often ugly) athletes. These men do much better with women than do world leaders or captains of industry.
Eh, I used to work in a high-end restaurant in a town with an NFL team. The average player wasn’t with women who were any hotter than the normal man. Most aren’t bagging super models Tom Brady style. If they do better with women than do the captains of industry, I suspect it has more to do with the fact that they don’t work 80 hours per week and thus have more time to spend with the ladies.
I see the link between attractivenness and intelligence because attractiveness and intelligence, while largely genetic factors out of the control of the individual, are also things that are amplified by being properly nurtured.
The most bothersome thing about the super-intelligent girl (I have known a few in my day) is that they usually are ‘pretty’ in some non-traditional way; face it, you don’t see too many people who are highly intelligent and physically repugnant.
Unkempt, sure, poorly groomed, maybe, improper style, almost always, but a good base is usually there.
The super intelligent girl COULD put a little more work into her appearance and do as well or better than the girls that usully clean house, but super intelligent girls tend to be very insecure and neurotic about their brains, so they can’t be like that. Super-intelligent girls also generally think they’re above other women and that leveraging their looks on the mating market is ‘bad’.
“This is b.s. Women aren’t attracted to intelligence at all. They may in fact find it modestly repulsive as they are less intelligent than men on average and much less when it comes to really smart men.”
Adding, Wit for women, wisdom for men. And then some flashes of the opposite, contrast is king.